If you’re not part of the solution…
The Board of Education and I have painstakingly presented the financial future of Mineola. It is grim. The continued decrease of revenue coupled with a 0% contingency should a budget fails naturally leads to a discussion of closing schools. This isn’t a new conversation. For the last three years it has been discussed, unfortunately it is now upon us. If we are to close schools then cooperation and civility must reign. I created this blog as a communication tool, not a war zone. Let’s work toward an amicable solution that keeps our programs in tact. We need to discuss practical options that solve the problem.
Posted in School Closings 14 years, 9 months ago at 2:20 pm. 41 comments
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A reply to Anonymous,
im quite disturbed that you think this way. If the people in Haiti cannot help themselves why shouldn’t us more fortunate people be the ones to help them. What kind of community would we be if we only thought about ourselves? How would you feel if a tragedy such as the one in Haiti happened here and other countries were only conserned with themselves? Besides part of the Mineola mission statement is to “contribute positively to a global society”. Besides don’t you think a persons life is more valuable than our schools being structured and the discomfort that comes with it?
I was so happy to read the post from “Appreciative Teachers”. Not for my sake but for yours. As I stated in my post, I truly believed that one’s opinion is not that of all, as I also believe is true of parent posts. I feel very fortunate to know all of the teachers in my children’s building well enough to know that it was none of them.
Thank you to each and every one of you who are willing to “give back”. We don’t need to know who you are specifically; it is just nice to know that you are out there. Thank you for your concern in this situation, but please know that in my opinion, the only apology that should be made should come from the infamous “teacher” to all of his or her colleagues. Keep Smiling!!
Speaking for myself, I do not feel that the comments made by “Teacher” represent all the teachers in Mineola. Please do not feel you need to apologize for said teacher. As I have said in my past blogs that I have the utmost respect for what you do. We do not need animosity in this district. We certainly don’t want teachers afraid to speak to parents and vice versa or to think we are angry at you and not have you want to smile at us(as per the 2nd “teacher” post). I know I am not angry at you. What we need at this critical time is for EVERYONE involved in our childrens education to come together and make this the most positive and best possible educational scenario we can provide to our children.
As teachers in this district, we too, were quite confused and embarrassed by the “Teacher” post earlier in this blog. We would like the community to know that this is certainly not a representation of the teachers in this district. We certainly understand and are sensitive to the economic hardships that we are all facing. There are many teachers who would be happy to “give back” to this community for the support shown to us through the years. Please understand that there are many teachers in this district who are dedicated to your children and are grateful for the jobs we do have. There are a majority of teachers who do not agree at all with the post of “teacher”. Please do not let one person’s views serve as the representation of others.
When I first read the post by Teacher I really didn’t know what to think. It was so over the top it didn’t seem real. And judging by the responses from other members of the Mineola community you have certainly struck a raw nerve. I guess reality is a relative thing. And during the process of debate regarding the closing of schools and the reconfiguration of our district it has been suggested on numerous occasions that that many residents had no problem paying more and if people did not want to pay the requisite increases to maintain the current budget they should move. So, if Teacher would be so kind as to just identify the generous and enlightened school district in which she/he resides maybe we can make a trade. We’ll give you our free spenders and you can send us your skinflints who believe in some sort of fiscal responsibility. Also, at the school board meeting last Thursday night it was stated by a board member that a local real estate agent mentioned to him that closing schools would be a negative for our distict . Well maybe it might have been suggested that our district is finally coming to grips with it’s problems and it refuses to sacrifice our student programs on the altar of fiscal insanity ! And by pushing these tough decisions back to a May vote that could easily be defeated by a very distrustful community puts our kids at risk ! Thank God four of the board members were willing to make the tough decision and start this difficlut process foward. I wonder what kind of success our real estate agents would have with prospective buyers when they told them that our district was so out of control that we are unable to control spending , that we are on an austerity budget and have no after school programs at all for their kids. Sounds very desirable.
Dr. Nagler-
I haven’t been on here in a while but am bothered by “Teacher’s” comments. If I may can I make a suggestion- don’t post ANYONE’S comments if they don’t use their name. If it is required to use their name, maybe they’ll think more carefully about what they are writing and hopefully vitriolic comments like this would cease. Then maybe there can be a more serious debate about facts and not people’s personal agendas.
As an aside- I was a teacher too (before staying home full-time to raise my children) and usually would never attack a teacher’s salary. However, in this current economy sometimes it’s better to have a job with a pay freeze then no job at all.
There are too many of you who reacted to my post to address each and every statement made, but you should know this. I am one and will not share my personal financial hardships with you, but trust me, they’re there.. Another one has a husband who has been out of work for a long time. Another one is a widow. They must support the mortgage and children alone. There are others who work all day in Mineola and then go and do all the things you do for your individual schools (PTA, board meetings, special events) at their children’s schools, as do I. We leave work, we clean, we cook, we work with our children on homework, we drive them to their friends homes or after school activities if we can afford to enroll them. We don’t get company cars. Some teachers work because they want to, some because they have to. The ones that must work do have wonderful professional schedules that allow them maximum time with their own children. There are teachers who never take a vacation because they, too, cannot afford one. There are teachers who are single mothers who must hire help to watch their children so they can earn a living to keep a roof over their heads. There are young single women and men who would love to one day buy an apartment or a small house, but they are constantly in fear of losing their job because of what some deem an “inefficient operation” which, truth be known, teachers are not privy to. The reality is still a reality – prices for everything rise: milk, eggs, education, public works. It is unfortunate that some people have lost invested money over the last year and are having difficulty keeping up. It is also unfortunate that some cannot even save money, but scrounge until the next paycheck comes in their mailboxes. I want you to know that the latter represents several teachers in Mineola. We live where you live, in Nassau county or it’s surrounding areas, and face the exact same financial hardships that you do.
I will also address the equity issue brought up by Mrs. Healy. Yes, there is inequity among the elementary schools in Mineola and clustering would very likely eliminate that. But the anger about our contracts will not be solved by clustering. Please understand that it is very, very hard to walk into work and see parents in the buildings who are clearly angry at us for having the contract we do. It doesn’t make us want to smile at you. So what has happened here? Now we have neighbor against neighbor, parent against teacher, parent against administrator….where do we go from here? I am not sure, but with fair certainty can predict it will not be Disney World.
Wow…to say that I was taken back by the post made by “Teacher” would be an understatement. Outraged would be a better term. Let me start by saying that I have the utmost respect for the teachers in this district, and that I know that “Teacher”s opinion is not that of all teachers. I have also been reading the posts, as well as responding to them and attending board meetings, and I don’t recall actual blame of the teachers themselves being an issue. There has been discussion and questions regarding the teacher’s contract, but never directed at one group of teachers, yet a teacher feels that it is OK to attack a group of parents, very unprofessional to say the least. I’m not sure where you have been, or how you could have missed the fall of the economy all around your community, but that is REALITY.
For you to bring up a change in lifestyle without knowing anything about the financial backgrounds of the families you are speaking to is a problem. Although I do not work a full time job during the day, I do go to work at night. My days are consumed with volunteer work that I do for my children’s school, as well as their Cub Scout Pack, not to mention my full time job as a mother, housekeeper, “taxi driver”, and personal chef to my family. The things that you asked if we were willing to give up have already been given up by most of us, if we even ever had them. Disney? Please, let my boys know what it is like there, because they have never been there, and the future doesn’t look good either. I, like many others, are not planning a family vacation over the spring or summer break, are YOU? Restaurant? The only restaurant my kids go to is the one that I WORK in when I have to bring them there until my husband can come and pick them up on his way home. Movies? Thank God for Optimum Rewards and free movies on Tuesday, because if it isn’t Tuesday, and it’s not playing at a Clearview Theater, we aren’t going! Let me also mention that the two cars that we own are 10 and 13 years old. No luxury there. I could go on forever with examples of my lifestyle, but I think you get the picture, not so pretty is it? Do the Math? If $1800 doesn’t seem like a lot of money to YOU, then YOU shouldn’t mind not getting it. No, $540,000 will not solve the problem, but basic math will show YOU that it will help.
There are many members of this community that would kill to have a job at all, let alone one that is secure and comes with contractual annual increases, and extremely low cost medical benefits, not to mention a wonderful retirement package. While YOU chose to teach in a school for a paycheck, some of us have chosen to teach at home by being there with our children. After all, education begins at home, and I am doing everything in my power to be at home while my children need me the most. Do YOU question the priority of my children’s education, as compared to the children in your community? How dare YOU, every aspect of my children’s life is my priority. Do you have any children?
I will repeat my previous request. PLEASE come out from behind the “Teacher” disguise, and let us know who you are. It must be very hard to be so bold, and yet so shy at the same time. As much as I don’t want to see any of our teachers loose their jobs, maybe you could help out by checking with your perfect community to see if there are any job openings, it is obvious that our community isn’t good enough for you.
Sharon Demelas a truly well done post, I couldn’t agree with you more.
Now on to the teacher. Please understand as I said, I agree with Ms. Demalas. That said, the facts of the contracts make a sympathetic ear a tough one to find. There are few jobs that offer annual raises plus steps, with the summers off plus a winter and spring break in addition to the standard holidays. The annual salaries are in reality for a bit under 10 months of actual day to day work. If you choose to be a club leader there are stipends, if you take tickets at a play, for example, you are paid at over $40 per hour, your portion of the health benefits premiums are well under the national average, and your pensions are golden.
For the seniors in particular there are few things to be cut down on. Medicine? Food? Health Insurance? Not many that I know are going into the city and many who have lost their savings this past year or so are struggling.
When 80% of the budget is driven by contractual obligations, you are part of the problem by virtue of your contract. Nothing personal against the work you do daily with the kids of the district.
Could someone please tell those of us who couldn’t attend Thursday’s BOE meeting what happened? Was it voted on to close 2 schools?
I meant to state this in my last post – Addressing the Teacher’s post, I don’t feel the community is blaming you or any other teacher. I feel we have an excellent, hard-working teaching staff, some being the finest on Long Island. However, I think what the community is saying is that we should all unite as one for the preservation of our fine school district in the future. Also, similar to your district, education is a top priority to the people of the Mineola District.
Mr. Melara, I am confused about your statement that closing schools would take away from the education of the children. I truly believe that we do not have a choice at this point but to cluster if we are going to survive in the future. If we don’t move forward it will take away from the educational level of our students because we are going to be in a dire financial crisis and will be forced to close schools under different terms.
We cannot keep procrastinating at this point and must move forward. I feel that a clustering system will not only help our district financially, but will help each student educationally and socially. I feel we are one of the best schools districts in Nassau County, and we should all feel very proud. We will have an opportunity to become even better by clustering.
We cannot jeopardize our after school programs. We have an outstanding fine arts program with a Marching Band being 1st in the State in their division. The recent String Concert was truly a lifetime experience with Mark Wood performing with our children. Our drama program is over the top giving Broadway quality performances. We have great sports programs. The after school programs are an extension of what our students are learning in the classroom. They build confidence, friendships and offer them opportunities in the future – in college and in their lifetimes. They enhance the educational level of each and every student. We cannot risk losing these programs!!
I truly can understand the fear of change that families with young children may be experiencing. But think of the overall benefits in the future for your children. If we don’t make the change now, it may be a very different story five years from now. The students, teachers, support staff and administrators have worked very hard over the past several years to get our district to the respectable level where it is today. We cannot go backwards now…….we need to make change now so that we have opportunities to grow in the future.
For the families who have young children and cannot see their educational lives beyond elementary school, take advantage of the wonderful shows and performances at the Middle and High Schools. It will help you to learn more about our district, our students and the wonderful talents they have. You will see what your children have to look forward to in the future. We have to keep our after school programs thriving!
Dear Teacher,
I read your comments and as a resident of more than 34 years in this school district, I feel it necessary to respond to your post.
I don’t question that there are many fine dedicated teachers in Mineola, but why do many other excellent school districts have much lower costs per student? I keep focusing on three areas – overall personnel contract costs, the number of employees and the number of buildings. If there are any other factors or areas which I should be considering, feel free to educate me.
A 4%-5% increase in a school district with among the highest costs in the Nassau County is more in absolute dollars than a 4%-5% increase in a more reasonably priced district, thus more tax dollars from businesses and residents.
I am pro education but why are you asking me to sacrifice a night out to support what I consider to be an inefficient operation? My kids went to Mineola when there were two less schools and all three got an excellent education.
Frankly, I believe that the Mineola Teachers’ Union has done an excellent job negotiating for the teachers – much better than the administration in the past. Having spent a significant amount of time in both the public and private sector, I am very familiar with both. Historically, the public sector’s pay was low but the vacation, health and pension benefits were excellent. All levels of the public sector have seen significant salary increases since I left the public sector without any significant change in the fringe benefits. Pension and health benefits for retired public employees whose life expectancy has increased, will be a significant burden to both Federal and State Governments in the years to come.
The reverse can be said about private industry. Many companies have eliminated defined benefit pension plans for employees and employees now must rely solely on 401K plans. Employee contributions to health benefit costs have significantly increased and in a number of cases, employees not covered by union contracts have seen salary cuts.
I would hope that the School Board and Administration take a very hard stance in all upcoming contract negotiations based on economic facts and comparisons with contract rates in other districts. My position is based on the reality of the economic times we all face.
Dear Teacher,
With all do respect, I find your comments inappropriate and insensitive. I am one of the “non-working mothers of Mineola” who has been quite vocal about this situation. I may not have a full time paying job like yourself but I hold many “jobs”. I am a full time mother of two and a PTA Co-President. I also pick up and watch other children after school and have a part time job as a bookkeeper several hours a week while my children are at school. I do what I can to contribute to the income of my family without sacrificing my time that I spend raising my children. They are my biggest asset and I feel I need to be there for them while they are growing up.
I am very happy for you that you live in a community that passes the school budget easily each year. It is not to say that because our budget does not pass as easily that our childrens education is not a high priority to us. Our budget passing is always in question due to the diverse demographics of our community. We have a high population of senior citizens in Mineola, many of which are original homeowners and helped build this town. We also have a very large group of hard working minorities who struggle everyday to make a better life for themselves. We live in a middle class community and we all work hard to pay our bills. There isn’t anyone who has not been affected by these hard times. Many have been affected more directly than others. We have to remember that it is not only our school tax bill that goes up but all of our monthly household expenses have gone up as well. My husband owns his own service business and depends on the public to be able to maintain his business. When his customers have financial problems it affects us. We struggle everyday to maintain the lifestyle which we lead which is in no way extravagant. We sacrifice a lot in order for me to be home with our children. My children have never been to Disney or anywhere else on vacation. We very rarely go to the movies because it kills me to pay $50 for a family of four to see a movie that I can rent for under $5 in a month or so, let alone if my kids asked for a snack during the movie. We do not go out to the city but maybe once a year or eat in expensive restaurants, when we do go out it is to a family restaurant sometimes with a coupon or a gift certificate.
It is not to say that by asking the teachers union to take a pay freeze that our financial woes would be eleviated. I believe what the community is saying, is that everyone needs to sacrifice to maintain our district. If you are part of a union I would think you would rather unite and take a pay freeze than watch some of your colleagues lose their jobs. It could be you one day. I speak for myself when I say we are not BLAMING you. I truly believe that being a teacher is a calling. I have the utmost respect for teachers. You spend more waking hours of the day with our children than we sometimes do. You are are a large part of the people they become. If you are truly dedicated to our children and their welfare and education then I would hope you would willing to sacrifice in order to maintain that level of education or even further it. The community is not asking for a decrease in your salary but to not increase it. Many members of this community have been living without pay increases for several years while still paying higher school taxes to cover teachers pay increases every year.That is a true struggle for us every year but we do it for the sake of our children. My true wish is that we can all work together as a community including our teaching community to give our children the best education they deserve even if we all have to sacrifice just a bit.
Please note that I have no way to verify that this post is actually a teacher in our district.
Teachers, Administration, Board of Education members, and parents of the Mineola school district….Thank you in advance for giving us the opportunity to share our thoughts through this form of communication.
I am disappointed to find that the solution to Mineola’s financial problems is to take away the most valuable learning tool to a child—education. Students and well-qualified educators are not responsible for the financial mishandling of the school administration and board of education both past and present.
Instead of closing schools and leaving employees of Mineola UFSD without a job, let us all look at the root of this financial problem. Administration should know where that lies. This has not been clearly stated to us.
Schools should be kept open, not closed. Let’s all support to pass the upcoming school budget and keep asking questions to the board.
In whatever solution, I, as a parent and taxpayer, expect the best for my children. I hope that the philosophy, “Mineola Public Schools…for a lifetime of learning”, is upheld in the end.
As a proud stay at home mother, I am disgusted by the comments made by “teacher.” I am Co-President of Cross Street School PTA, serve on District Council, teach religious education and participate in numerous other activities in the Mineola and Williston Park community. I have been an involved parents for the 10 years my 3 children have been students in this district. In addition, my father was in public education his entire life, his last position before retirement was as Superintendent of Schools in Herricks. I am very familiar with the public education system. I have a brother who is a Principal of an elementary school and a sister in law who is a 4th grade teacher. I respect and value public education, administrators, and teachers.
To insinuate that the lifestyle of a teacher should be or is any different than mine is outrageous. We have a mortgage, and bills to pay, just like you.The choice to remain at home with my children was a choice made by my husband and me. We feel strongly that being home with our children is worth the many sacrifices we have made to make along the way. My children have never been to Disney. The last time we went out to dinner was months ago, and we used a gift certificate given to us as a thank you. My husband took a pay cut, had to give his company car back and has not had any overtime in almost a year. In addition, we have had to pay more for health and dental benefits each month.
I especially take offense to the following statement you made, “I feel fortunate to live in a community where education is a high priority and the budget passes easily regardless of individual families ability to pay.” What exactly are you saying? That because our community is now no longer willing or able to pass a 5 % budget increase, education is not a priority? How disgusting to even intimate that is the case. Of course it is our priority! The REALITY is that this diverse community of hard working people truly may not have the ability to pay!!!
In your statement, you left out what I believe is the most important part of this whole discussion, finally bringing equity to our district. As a teacher in our district, you must be keenly aware of the fact that there is not equity amongst our buildings. Some classes have 14 children, some have 24. One school has a large number of ESL students while other schools have very few. Some schools have libraries, while some buildings use a classroom as their library. This is our chance to make our district even better. As a teacher, you must surely be able to think of a few benefits of teaching in a building where there are more teachers on a grade to collaborate with.
As for the statement that “some of the non working mothers of Mineola are screaming the loudest for us to give back some of our salary. Can you say irony?” I say to you that those that have asked for the unions to consider taking a pay freeze have done so due to the tough economic times we are all experiencing. It is not about giving back some of your salary. It is about making concessions and showing the community that you truly understand the hardships we too are facing.
As we move forward, let’s remain focused on the children and what is best for them. I am confident that under the leadership of Dr. Nagler and the Board of Education, the educational experience for ALL the children in our district will be one that is fair and equitable.
I have been reading these comments from the beginning without contributing. I feel that after Mr. Napolitano’s last comment, it is now my responsibility to add a thought. No Mineola teacher wants to see this happen, nor do they want to families, parents or children (or ourselves) shuffled around. However, the community is continuously referring to our salaries without taking a look at lifestyle. Most teachers in the district are woman who must work to help support their families while some of the non-working mothers of Mineola are screaming loudest for us to give back some of our salary. Can you say irony?
The reality of a tax hike is just that – reality. We all face it annually within the communities we live. I feel fortunate to live in a community where education is a high priority and the budget passes easily, regardless of individual families’ ability to absorb the increase. And that is what this comes down to. Are YOU, as a parent, willing to go out one less night in the city or to a nice restaurant, are YOU willing to wait for Avatar to come out on DVD, are YOU willing to forgo a vacation to Disney to keep your schools open and prospering? This teacher is not so sure and clearly, neither is the board of education. If they were confident that you would make the necessary cuts in your lifestyles (and I mean the whole community, not just Mr. Napolitano) then they would put the budget out at a four or five percent increase and keep the neighborhood schools open. What would it cost you? While no one is able to give a clear number, it might just mean cutting out a few recreational things in your lives. If you think that the teacher union giving back a percent or two is going to solve this problem, then I think you need to consider the math. Let’s say 300 teachers at an average of $90,000 annually. Two percent would be $1,800 per teacher times 300 teachers would be $540,000. It also would not solve this problem. So PLEASE, stop blaming us. We work hard and care about your children.
I
To all the folks that are regreting the possible loss of some of our school buildings and the possible reconfiguration of our district I can understand your concerns and I hope that we can work together in a constructive manor should these events come to pass. We have to make the best of a bad situation. These tough decisions are the bitter fruit of many bad decisions made by past administrations and school boards. Whether it’s the rebuilding of Willis Avenue school or the endless increases in salary and benefits to our district unions is moot. Here we are. Where do we go from here to maintain a quality school district that creates an atmosphere of creativity and schlorship for our kids and maintains the quality of life for all our residents? To all those who say that we should just keep increasing our taxes endlessly , there is an inverse relationship between taxes and home values. The more we raise taxes the more the value of our properties decline. Not a good choice. And to think that you can just cross some imaginary line and move to another district where everything is ducky is not reality. Though many of our problems are self inflicted all school districts in the metro area are all going to have to deal with less money from our state governments. Through this entire process of debating our financial and education futures this community has not heard from the district unions. I can only assume that they have nothing to offer. Lets keep that in mind when it’s time to renegotiate contracts.
RE: Karla Melara.
There are a lot of people who feel the same as you. I see you are not getting any support from like minded parents. My wife and I feel the same as yourself. Keep up the fight!
Dr. Nagler ….Just as an aside. At the last school board meeting I do believe a request was made by the board for you to inquire with the district unions if they would forgo their increases in the coming year in an effort to help us close our current funding gap. The reason I ask this question is that in your comment from yesterday you mention that we do have an option in our current morass and that is closing school buildings. So, does that mean that the unions have responded negatively to this request ? I believe it’s extremely important that all members of our community know exactly where all parties stand in this process.
The governor presents his budget to the state congress, which usually counters with their own version of the budget. In the past, the congress has restored many of the education cuts proposed. There is no indication at this time that this will occur. The loss of revenue drives the increase in the tax levy, which is why the levy is approximately 1% higher than the budget to budget increase. The real underlying problem is the 0% contingency budget. If the budget were to fail (twice) the budget to budget increase would have to be 0%, which for Mineola would be 3.5 million dollars. A 2.5% tax levy would mean about 2.4 million in reductions; a contingency would mean an additional 1.1million. Every district is facing the same dilemma- the difference for us is we have an option (closing schools) that maintains programs like pre-k, afterschool clubs, intramurals to name a few. The question we are grappling with is what do we want to preserve- program or 7 schools? I don’t believe we can do both. MPN
Dr. Nagler, I was wondering if you knew when Gov. Paterson will decide about state aid to public schools. If we had state aid and a 2.5% increase, would the district not have to close schools? Maybe we (parents) should petition for the governor to not cut state aid instead.
We all know money is tight, but Mineola is unique in all aspects. My husband and I bought our home recently here because of the schools. We knew the school taxes were not as low as other districts to begin with. However, we wanted the best education. Other districts do not have Pre-K, excellent programs, and well-qualified teachers.
It would be a shame to close schools to make up for losses. We would lose great teachers and staff.
Everything has a cost and times have changed. Other districts just do not offer the same excellence with less cost.
Living in Mineola is wonderful, but all of it comes with the price…we knew that when we moved here.
I applaud you for being a great leader in all of this.
Ah, Ms. Melara if it were only that easy.
There are many people in this district who bought homes here because they have young children and wanted to live in the district. However, many have lost their jobs and also purchased their homes in the last five years. That means they may well owe more than they are able to get for their homes – if they were to be put on the market for sale now. Others may be struggling to keep that American dream, even if they are working multiple jobs. These people should move?
Then there are the seniors, upon whose backs this district was built. Folks like my parents and their neighbors who diligently wanted the best for their kids too. These are the people who did the fundraising for the original playgrounds in many schools and donated countless hours to the district either as chaperones, class mothers, (back in those days only the mom did this job), and scout leaders to name just a few.. These same folks – who are living on fixed incomes in the only home they have ever known, these people, should move?
There is a larger segment that has not been mentioned yet. How about the countless people who have been forced to use their savings to make ends meet? Many stopped contributing
to their kids’ college education funds. Sure they may have 529 savings plans or Coverdell educational accounts but they will need to be supplemented for sure, especially if the kids are in the High School. Those losses will take time to make up.
The commercial base in the district is suffering, which means less sales tax revenues, this truncates to loss to every taxpayer, as well as the district, because we are being forced to make up for those losses.
I could continue, but I hope that you understand it is not as black and white as you are stating. I am a volunteer in the local area and can say with 100% certainty that this area has more people needing and receiving assistance than you will ever know.
The better questions are, as Rick (Ueland) stated in the post above yours, “How do other school districts offer excellent academic programs at a more reasonable cost per student?” and “What does the Mineola UFSD have to do to provide a strong academic program at a more reasonable cost per student that approaches the cost of other excellent programs?”
Perhaps a third option is to rally behind what will benefit the majority and do no harm to the quality of the education. Let me assure you, I am quite certain that Dr. Nagler will agree with this statement, “There is not a district around on Long Island that isn’t faced with difficult decisions in this economic environment.”
Rick,
Well stated and the entire post hits the bulls-eye for our district.
The questions we should all be asking ourselves and trying to answer are “How do other school districts offer excellent academic programs at a more reasonable cost per student?” and “What does the Mineola UFSD have to do to provide a strong academic program at a more reasonable cost per student that approaches the cost of other excellent programs?”
The collective community should be working together to answer these questions to meet the needs of both the residents with children in school as well as those residents without children in school and commercial taxpayers. Collectively these groups provide the bulk of the funding for the Mineola schools.
I have read many comments posted. I agree with Dr. Nagler that this shouldn’t be a war zone. Unfortunately, there are schools who don’t even face these type of decisions. They face 0% budget increases and schools lagging in technology. They face changes in administration year after year. Students also do not progress.
Two possible solutions:
One-Let’s all pass and support an increase in budget to keep our outstanding district going the way it is.
Two-Let’s move to another district that does not have these decisions and give our kids second-class quality education while paying less.
REALITY CHECK: WE WANT THE BEST…LET’S PAY…OR MOVE TO ANOTHER DISTRICT THAT ‘S MORE AFFORDABLE.
Hi Rick,
Thanks for the OK on the informal salutation. I now see that we are really very much on the same page, glad to see that you had read the previous comments too.
Debbie,
Please feel free to call me Rick. Mr. Ueland is almost 90 and is doing well playing golf in Florida. I had previously read all the posts and I agree that there were a number of excellent comments on the issues.
I also agree that the computation of taxes is a complex process, however, regardless of the tax rate, changes in other revenues and blanket changes made to assessed valuations at the end of the day the out of pocket school taxes that my wife and I will pay this year increased by 6.7% over the school taxes we paid last year and our out of pocket taxes over the past 10 years have gone up just over 100% in actual dollars paid. These are the only real tax rate calculations that matter to me. I realize that other residents could have different out of pocket results but in talking with some of my neighbors who have the same type of house, they have seen similar increases.
There are a number of factors that impact on the actual taxes a person pays. The website you referred to states:
“Tax bills increase for one or more of the following
reasons: bigger budgets are adopted, revenue from
sources other than the property tax shrinks, the taxable
assessed value of the assessing unit changes, or the tax
levy is apportioned differently.”
Because of the complexity of the process I’ve have always used cost per student as the best metric to track the financial effectiveness of the school district. Not only can you track the year over year changes within the district, you can compare the cost per student against other districts as well as the County average.
Thanks for your comments.
Rick Ueland
Mr. Ueland,
Go to the POST SCHOOL CLOSINGS COMMENTS HERE section, just below this heading and scroll down and read through the 130 posts you will find many, myself included, that speak about the very same things you have brought up. I do however; want to correct one statement of yours.
The assessed valuation of your home has gone up, therefore the taxes are at a greater dollar value but the percentage is not 6.7% higher. For example:
If you home was valued at $100 and the tax % for purpose of discussion was 10% you would pay $10 in taxes.
Another house is valued at $1000 – and he would pay $100 in taxes.
The rate remains constant, but your assessed valuation is the trigger that the rest of the calculation is based upon.
I apologize, if this seems too simplistic, but if it helps any of the blog readers to understand this complex calculation better, it is worth it. In one of my posts under that heading, I included a link to a NYS website that does a great job of explaining the calculations.
On Feb 9th, John McGrath wrote that financial hysteria is governing the discussion of a budget and school closings. I see it differently. I see it as financial reality finally starting to be taken seriously. It is based on the possibility of a 0% contingency. I applaud the parents whose comments at public meetings have recognized that the status quo is unacceptable and see the need to make changes. Unfortunately, we are in this position based on what I would consider to be poor decisionmaking (e.g. Willis Ave) and less than adequate contract negotiations that have limited the opportunity to hold down costs without significant impact.
I like to deal in facts. After Dr. Nagler suggested at a previous meeting that if you wanted to check your actual increases look at your tax bills. My tax bill increase has averaged 10% a year over the past 10 years and this year is 6.7% higher than last year. I also checked the overall district tax levy which averaged 5.6% a year for the past 10 years. My comments above have significantly impacted on these numbers. I find these increase unacceptable.
I also find it interesting that no one ever discusses the school tax impact on local businesses (look at the vacant buildings). As market values go down due to vacancies, owners will file tax certiori claims to reduce taxes. Someones got to cover the lost tax revenue. In addition,the cost per student (reported by Newsday to be over $30,000 per student) in also never discussed. Why do folks have to research on the internet (old data) or use newspapers as sources? The only metric used is the tax on an average assessed house. We need these issues to be specifically addressed in budget documents as part of our financial reality.
I see this conversation as financial reality starting to be taken seriously and not financial hysteria.
Just to clarify, the District Council comment referred only to Dr. Nagler’s call that we work together amicably, and to no other post.
MineolaParent – I want to clarify a few points, just for the sake of accuracy
While I agree that a study was done by Drs. Fowler and Beni, the cost was closer to $55,000 plus approximately $6,000 for the demographic study.
However, they did not make any specific recommendation to close Willis or any other school by name. I am quoting from a School Leadership, LLC memorandum dated 9/23/08 authored by the above that says “It was our understanding that the Board wished to take to a public hearing the three options for which the questionnaire results showed the greatest support.
1)
Utilize 5 of the 7 schools
One school with PreK – K, Two schools with Grades 1-4, grades 5 – 7 at the middle school,
8 – 12 at the high school
2)
Utilize 5 of the 7 schools
One school with Pre k – 1, two schools with Grades 2 – 5, Grades 6-8 at the middle school and 9-12 at the high school
3) Continue to operate all 7 schools
It continues, the grade configuration study this past year has successfully identified 2 viable options for long term cost savings as a result of such a configuration. However, from the Board discussion at the June Board meeting it appeared that the board was not close to consensus on any step to be taken at this time”
It further stated “we recommend that the Board defer any action at this time until the District’s new leadership is in place.” It continues with points relative to making changes while in the midst of seeking new leadership. I am fairly certain a copy of this is available at the district office.
We would look to rent the buildings to other schools. Either BOCES or a private entity
I have a child in the mineola school district and I have an open mind to any solution that will work. I know that myself and other residents are also concerned with what will be done with the closed school properties. For example, If hampton st. school were to close, would the property be developed for homes or would it be turned into an unwanted factory? I think these are also some of the questions that local residents have that also need to be addressed.
Sincerely, Harold Westfall
Breaking up the schools as a Prek-K, 1&2, 3&4, etc. sounds like more aggravation than anything else. I would have kids in 3 schools and it doesn’t benefit me because I live within a 1/2 mile of meadow drive with no bus service. This year has been alot of back and fourth. Now that’s another PTA to join, another fundraiser I have to buy something from, another Halloween Parade I have to hope I make because they are all within 15 minutes of one another but the schools are @ least 10 min apart with no traffic. I for one am against this type of breakup because on top of all this I am a working mother who still needs to work, clean the house, cook dinner, take the kids to there extracurricular activities and help them with homework. I am sure I am not the only one with this type of situation.
Besides the mayham of everyday life, I think that constantly transitioning them to new schools at such a young age is unhealthy. They just get use to a place and then its off to another school. We are trying to make them comfortable and unfair to them.
Random Musing: The situation in Haiti is unfortunate but the people and the government in Haiti don’t do anything to help themselves. As I struggle to pay my mortgage, taxes, and everyday bills and the government and schools are talking about deficits should we really be asked to donate fundraiser after fundraiser to raise money for Haiti after we are being faced with closing schools and laying off faculty to save money. On a local level should we really be concerned with this? Our federal tax dollars already went to Haiti. Haiti is just an example. I would like to see this fundraiser money go towards the Mineola deficit we are facing in these tough economic times.
Dr. Nagler,
Last nights string concert at the high school was a very impressive event. The energy, enthusiasm, and talent displayed by the students is a testament to the quality of their education. My compliments to the teachers and the administrators who had the forsight to put this program forward. Mark Woods infectious enthusiasm for music is sure to inspire some of our students to strive to excel. The standing room only crowd were witnessing just one example of the breadth of the education our students recieve.
How much money is there in our school district’s reserve fund?
Our district hired a company to present the best plan for our district three years ago. Dr. Fowler recommended WILLIS AVENUE be one of the schools to close should we need to venture in that direction. Why now the change of heart, after hiring and paying professionals $40,000?
You express we need to discuss practical options. Dr. Fowler and MANY residents of our community find closing Willis Avenue practical. Why are we not taking Dr. Fowler’s advice?
Dr. Nagler, you have just began your career as Superintendent in our district. Having this blog is a great way for us to “blog” our thoughts. However, if you read something you don’t want to share with others is wrong.
If you expect any budget to pass you need to discuss ALL options. If you don’t it certainly leads me to wonder what your agenda is. In order for me to properly vote on a budget I need my questions answered.
Why are we not taking the advice of Dr. Fowler and closing WILLIS?
District Council concurs.
Unfortunately we are being forced to guess at a percentage budget increase that the residents of the school district might pass because of the risk/threat of a 0% contingency budget. The suggested increase of 2.5% the school board is considering now is no more guaranteed to pass than a 4.0% increase. In the end financial hysteria is governing the discussion of a budget to put before the voters. That hysteria is also governing the discussion of closing schools. Hysteria is unlikely to produce productive discussion and much more likely to result in the types of negative comments being posted on the blog. Unfortunately, until the community comes together on the issue of the configuration of its public schools the hysteria and the negative comments are likely to continue.