School Times for 2012-2013
As we prepare to close Willis in September it has become apparent that we need to change the times of at least one school. The simplest remedy is to change Meadow’s start time to approximately 8:42 ending the day at 3:19. This would start the two PreK-2 ‘s at different times and may cause a difficulty in shared staff. My preference would be to start the Meadow and Hampton at the same time, but we will adjust teachers schedules if need be.
This may be the last opportunity to change the start times of all the schools and we would like to explore some very different possibilities. The research overwhelming supports younger students starting school early and adolescents starting later, but school districts rarely can accommodate this notion. The Board and I would like your feedback on the following possibilities.
These options are purely investigatory and all times listed below ARE APPROXIMATE and subject to change. Please note that option two places Jackson Avenue at the same dismissal time as Chaminade, a long standing issue that we resolved this year. In Option three the earliest bus stop will be approximately 7:00 for the longest bus route (Wisteria and Albertson for Hampton and Horton Highway and McNeil Place for Meadow). All have pros and cons.
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Option One |
Option Two |
Option Three |
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| High School | 7:26- 2:18 | High School | 7:26- 2:18 | Meadow | 7:30-2:07 |
| Middle School | 7:49- 2:41 | Middle School | 7:49- 2:41 | Hampton | 7:30-2:07 |
| Hampton | 8:12- 2:49 | Jackson | 8:12- 2:49 | High School | 7:54-2:46 |
| Meadow | 8:42- 3:19 | Meadow | 8:48- 3:25 | Middle School | 8:20-3:12 |
| Jackson | 8:50- 3:27 | Hampton | 8:48- 3:25 | Jackson | 8:45-3:22 |
Option 1
Dear Dr Nagler
I expressed my gratitude to you regarding the change in school times briefly at The Regatta on Sat evening. I am a parent of a first grader in Meadow and a Pre k student in Willis. First and foremost the staggering of the times between Jackson and Chaminade has improved traffic and parents behavior tremendously. That time should stay UNCHANGED!!! at Jackson. Any other times you have to tweak, we as parents and students will adjust. My only request because as I told you on Saturday I am the crossing guard for Mineola HS, MS, and Jackson is to please communicate any and all changes of school times to the Nassau County Police Dept 3rd precinct 5165736315 as soon as you have finalized the schedules. In an ever changing society people young and old have to learn to adapt and go with the flow. I have the utmost confidence in your administration that you will make the necessary and best changes for our children, because at the end of the day “THEY” are all that matter. Education is number one in our home and the support we can give to our teachers and admin is vital in a successful career in education. Many more people than you may realize appreciate all you have done for the Mineola school district. Nothing is perfect but CHANGE IS GOOD!!!! We also have some awesome teachers in our system that need to be commended for their hard work and passion for education and our children. My oldest child has had the privilege of having two great teachers thus far in his short time in Mineola. Mrs Teri Wolfe and Mrs. Kim Martino. These two educators exemplify that the student comes first, education is number one, structure and discipline is important and their passion for their careers is a bright spot in our changing world.
Hope I’m not too late to weigh in. You absolutely MUST keep Jackson Ave. start and end times different from Chaminade. The relief from the congestion of busses since the change is not only welcomed, it is necessary for the safety of ALL. (You finally fixed that problem and I cannot believe it’s even an option to break it again!)
I think leaving the times as they are is a great option. I see no reason for more change in a district that is already facing so much change. While I admire the thought of a later time for older kids, I think that it would put the after school teams who compete against other districts at a disadvantage, starting later and playing later and then getting back home after dinner times. It also makes it harder to get homework done in the afternoons. I think more change is disruptive all around.
If later times are what is coming…a breakfast scope type program at the later schools would be helpful to many families who will now be scrambling for morning care. When will you decide?
How would these schedule changes affect SCOPE after care programs. That is an important element for my family to consider.
I have children in the HS, MS and PreK – 2. I can say that starting at 7:30 would not be a problem for my child in elementary school. Starting at 8:48 would be a hardshhip as anyone who has to be at work at 9 am and does not have the flexibility with their workplace this will be extremely difficult. I do hope if the Pre K – 2 times are changed to 8:48 am that you please have a morning Scope or other before care plan as early as the first day of school. I would prefer option 3 or 1.
At least option 2 helps out those who have more than one child in this school district. Right now I have a 4 minute difference in the dismissal times with my 2 boys, thus eliminating me ever picking them up from school. If option 2 becomes our new thing at least I could meet them every now and then at school.
Intuitively I would say that younger children should start school later than the older ones. I don’t think our youngest children, the 5 and 6 year olds, should be waiting at a bus stop at 6:59 in the morning. Plus, they need more sleep. So that eliminates Option 3. And Option 1 clearly presents a scheduling conflict for all parents with kids at both Meadow and Jackson. That leaves Option 2. I wouldn’t make the start times any earlier than they already are now. Keep in mind that some kids participate in before-school activities, such as intramurals and AM Jazz Band. These activities currently start at 7 am at the Middle School. I know a number of kids who dropped out of AM Jazz Band just because it was way too early. If you’re going to continue to offer before-school activities, please don’t make the start times any earlier than they already are now. Or consider making them a few minutes later, which might minimize any conflict with Chaminade.
Option 2 or next best option 1. I agree with the rest of the parents that option 3 is terrible.
I feel option 2 is best.
Clearly option #2 is the best solution. How would any parent be able to leave Meadow to pick up their older child at Jackson in 8 minutes? Also, why would any parent feel comfortable waking an almost 4 year old up early enough to catch a 7am bus for pre-k? Yes, I agree with Rich, we might as well look at other schools for our children to attend.
Changing the starting and ending times of a school day will always have an effect on someone; no answer is the best answer. As parents, we need to realize that these times and lengths of days depend greatly on teacher contracts, bus route scheduling, and shared special area teacher’s schedules. Each of us could express our individual concerns and conflicts. When Jackson’s start time went to 8:43 this year from 8:02 last year, it greatly affected the working parents, but it was done. I currently have a student in Jackson and the Middle School and do not get a bus to either. This year, there is a 50 minute difference in start and ending time which is not convenient, but it is what it is. As I look to the possibilities of next years schedule, I will have a Jackson and High School student and could potentially see a 1 hour and 24 minute difference in start times with option 1, again, not convenient, but possible.
While option 2 would be the most convenient, there is the Jackson/Chaminade arrival and dismissal time conflict, although this has been minimized by the re-configuration as far as more buses and less individual cars coming to Jackson.
Option 3 would have the least effect for my family, but it’s not about my individual situation. Option 3 would also allow the older children in the family to be home with the younger ones when the parents have to go to work in the morning.
I am opposed to Option 3 for my Kindergartner. 7:30 is just too early for a 5 year old to start school. Anyone who has young ones at home understand how difficult it is to get little ones out of the house in a timely matter, especially if there are more than 1 of them. If school starts at an earlier time, would there be an after school program for the younger children? In this economy, not every parent can afford child care to watch their children after school ends.
As a high school student, who has taken the psychology electives at the high school and discussed the studies regarding older kids starting later, I wonder how much of a difference 18 minutes is really going to make. Also won’t starting and therefore ending the school day for high school and even middle school affect sports and their practices. While I would love for school to start later because I am always up late between the amount of homework I get and activities I am involved in, I am unsure of how much of a difference 18 minutes would make.
Dr. Nagler, Thank you for the forum to voice our opinion. I personally am in favor of option 1 or 2 but absolutely not 3. My opposition is not soley with the early start time (which I believe is too early) but with the 1 hr and 15 minute difference between the start of meadow and jackson. It is a tremendous inconvenience to shuffle kids to school/bus stop multiple times a morning & again in the afternoon. The scheduling should have been one of the first logistical concerns when the school district advocated splitting the elementary schools but it appears to have been an afterthought.
As a working full time parent my 9 th and 3d grader get up early each day for school. Upon reviewing everyones comments, I feel that the only option to be considered is the one to do with safety. The Chaminade and Jackson avenue start time and end time needs to remain staggered. The safety of all our children should be our priority.The fact that little children are at the bus stops early is not a safety issue because they will be with a parent. The children adjust to getting up early providing that the parents ensure that they go to bed early enough the night before.
The start times are fine just the way they are. There has been enough change already and not for the better. Option 3 is God awful. If that is the option the district is rolling with it may be time to start thinking about other schools.
I am completely in favor of Option #1. It is not just because we’ll have a first grader starting Meadow & 2 others in Jackson next year, but as someone pointed out there only seems to be a half hour difference with option 3 start time of when the High School starts, but almost an hour difference for dismissal in the afternoon for my Meadow child. My husband & I both work full time and our babysitter has her own schedule coordinated as well. I’m sorry but in this economy we don’t have the funds to pay for another program for our kids to stay in until someone can get them…
I am opposed to option 3 as I feel that children at this age benefit the most from approx. 11 hours of sleep. This helps them to focus and learn better. If a young child has to wake up at 6 AM they will not get the appropriate amount of sleep needed to function in an educational environment. If we want to improve test scores, young children should not be placed in a classroom this early. Also, many families with K and 1st grade children also have other younger children who will have to be out the door very early. I realize that there is no before school program for working parents, however, we need to focus on the children here instead of the need for childcare. I would support either option 1 or 2.
I think option 2 is best. As the kids get older the start times should become earlier. That said the pre-k-2 nd grade should begin the latest and High school the earliest.Option 2 all the way!!!
If given the choice, My husband and I would pick option 1 We would much rather keep an earlier start time for school than a later one.
Although I am sensitive to the concerns of the parents of younger children, I am most in agreement with the HS student Allison, and with Theresa Yarri. When my boys were in elementary school no time was too early for them. As they got older, their sleep patterns change greatly. As a working parent, I would have loved an earlier start time when they were young because it was a sprint to get to work on time.
Since we do have to change the start time I would hope that as far as possible we would do it based on sound research about the sleep needs of children at different ages. Therefore, I would support option 3. I would even modify it and switch the Middle School and HS start and end times.
Option 3 is my favorite. My children never had a problem with waking up early when they were in Elementary and even Middle School. When they entered the HS they had more homework and challenging classes. It became more of a struggle for them to wake up after going to sleep around 11:00 – 12:00 p.m. For students taking AP classes, those are the classes they face at 7;26 a.m. I think extra time for High School students should be considered. Personally it doesn’t really make a huge difference to us because we have gotten used to our early routine. Good Luck!
If Meadow has to start that late then there needs to be a morning SCOPE program or I have to find someone to put my children on the bus. I have two children and my older child will be going to Jackson. I leave at 7am and because I am a teacher I can’t start later. I know some parents are able to adjust their work schedules. IS it possible for Hampton to start at the later time? The only benefit is dismissal will be later and then I might not need an after school program.
I say just start Meadow and Hampton at 8.42am and leave every thing else alone…There is no good choice and no real reason to adjust anything else!
My youngest is in Jackson and even I feel Option 3 is just not right!
Has anyone looked at the fact that those of us with children at Jackson and at Meadow will have an hour between start times with option 3…the logistics for working parents as well as everyone else trying to get their kids up and out seems very difficult with such a huge time difference between buildings.
We are totally against starting at 7:30 for PK-2. We’ve had this discussion before about start times with younger kids. We had to have the bus routes changed this year to later pick up times because we didn’t want the kids put on the bus at 7:25 to go to Meadow! I vote for Option 1, keeps the Chaminade conflict at bay, Jackson is similar to what is now, Hampton would be the same as this year, and lastly, I think it would help out the working parents not having to look for additional care.
While all parents make valid points wanting what’s best for their own children, I have to say that I would feel extremley uncomfortable sending my 5 year old daughter on a school bus… half asleep at 7am….to start her long full day of school!!!
I have many of the same questions the other concerned parents have. Why can’t we keep all times as they are? Why must these changes be made? Someone should at the very least explain “why” these decisions need to be made. Who comes up with these suggestions and why are they better than what we current have? Perhaps if things are put into perspective for us it might be a little easier to swallow.
I am definitely against option #3. If I had to choose right now, I choose option #1.
I am also completely opposed to option 3. In my daughter’s previous school they needed to be out of the house by 7:00 and it was a daunting task to get them out of bed , dressed, fed and ready as well as awake for school. I don’t know many Kindergarteners that are motivated to get out of the house that early. I would love to know where this research is coming from and if the the people conducting this reserach actually have young children in school. We also have to consider working parents who leave the house early themselves and need to find childcare. I like option one the best if I had a choice. Mineola has made many big changes this past year, but by changing the time by more than one hour in the morning is a huge deal for many parents. Please reconsider that option.
Sometimes even with statistics and reports we have to go with what our common sense tells us. A 7:30 start time for our Pre-k through 2nd graders does not seem like common sense. Way too early. Yes they would have to wake up at about 6 am to have a decent breakfast and get dressed in order to catch the bus. Just doesn’t sound right for a 4, 5, 6 and 7 year old. I am completely opposed to option 3.
When I look at the chart for all the start times of the middle school and high schoolers it seems it’s only a difference of about 1/2 an hour unless I’m missing something. When I look at Hampton/Meadow start times there is a 45 to an hour range in the proposed start times. Is 1/2 an hour more of morning time that critical to our older students???
We lived in NC for a few years and they had elementary start at 7:30. We had to be at the bus stop at 6:45. Ungodly, yes, no doubt, but we adjusted and dealt with it. The middle and high school started later and ended later, but with after-school activities, clubs, sports, etc., by the time they did their homework, they need the extra hour or so of sleep. I also feel that we could use more hours a day to “catch up” with other countries because we are so far behind academically. I wouldn’t be opposed to that. So in a nutshell, I feel any option would be suitable.
I do not agree with option 3 at all. Is anyone even considering the working parents? Not all moms are stay at home mothers. We have alot of working moms out there that do not have anyone to take the kids to the buses early in the morning and not everyone can afford to put their child in an afterschool program or childcare. Why are the littlest ones getting the dirty end to everything in all this mess.
As a high school student, there are a few things I wish to address
1. Darkness
The darkness at the bus stop doesn’t seem like it should be a problem. When I was younger a parent accompanied me to the bus stop, so it would still be perfectly safe with adult authority figures watching over the children. Also, I currently leave for the bus and it isn’t dark at all, it just seems dark in comparison to a well lit house.
2. Young children’s sleep patterns
When I was in pre-k- 2 I would go to bed at 8 or 9 and wake up automatically at 6 am, giving me a solid 9-10 hours of sleep. With that much sleep, kids should be able to make it to the bus by 7.
3. Teen’s sleep patterns.
A majority of high school students stay up until 10-12 each night studying and doing homework. They then wake up at 5-6 to get ready for school. This gives students 5-8 hours of sleep a night. Studies show that teens need 9 and ¼ hours of sleep. A recent poll conducted by the National Sleep Foundation found that 60% of children under the age of 18 complained of being tired during the day, according to their parents, and 15% said they fell asleep at school during the year. This is hurting the students’ performance in school. Now one thing I think is important to stress is that biologically, teens have extreme difficulty going to sleep before 11 due to circadian rhythms. This means that even if school work and other activities are completed, most teens can’t go to sleep early even if they try. (If you want to read more about this topic go to http://www.sleepfoundation.org/article/sleep-topics/school-start-time-and-sleep)
From a high school student’s perspective, this is why I think we should choose option 3.
Dear Dr. Nagler, is there any thought to starting ten/fifteen minutes later and running an hour more in the afternoon? I think we need to be aggressive in our efforts in educating our children to “catch up” with/to other countries around the world. I know it’s not a popular idea, but students do perform better scholastically during the aforementioned inquery…
I am completely opposed to option 3. It is difficult enough now getting my 6 year old out of bed to make his bus to Meadow. I would prefer Option 1 as a first choice and Option 2 as a second choice.
I can barely get my six year old on the bus at 7.30 in the morning, especially on those dark Winter mornings. Please do not consider option 3 for Meadow. Option 1 would be preferable we have children in the Middle school and High school.
I agree with some of the other parents here and feel that whatever option is chosen; the younger students in the district with working parents should be accommodated with affordable before and after school programs. Whether district run or subcontracted to Scope; we need to assure there are reasonably priced childcare options for the children of working parents. Most districts in Nassau and Suffolk county offer both before and after school programs.
For me personally Option three doesn’t scare me as much since my child will have to be out of the house early regardless, because of my work schedule… and home late as well. The district currently offers an after school care program but no before school program – so without any before school care the early start time (while inconvenient to many) is helpful to those that must go to work.
Option 3 poses a very dangerous situation for the youngest kids. We are constantly talking about bus safety with them and keeping them away from the curb in daylight when they are more likely to be seen by traffic. If they are waiting for the bus in the dark the likelihood of being seen by cars and buses will decrease. The bottom line for me is about keeping our kids safe from traffic, so option 3 just isn’t a good idea.
I would have to choose option #1 or #2. I am not comfortable putting my 5 year old on the bus in the dark!
While I’m aware that we do not live in a perfect world. I question the effectiveness of any grade starting before 8/8:30 am.
Has there been any cost benefit analysis performed to see if part of our bus routes could be subcontracted out to allow all students in the district to start at a reasonable hour?
Lastly, you mention the overwhelming support for younger students starting earlier than teenagers. Did this research indicate ideal start times based on age?
On the surface Option 1seems to be the most logical. If it wasn’t for the Chaminade conflict, I would definitely prefer Option 2. Option 3 is unacceptable because of the safety issues of having 5-7 year olds at bus stops in the dark. Besides, they would believe it’s still night and they don’t have to go to school yet!
I am totally opposed to OPTION 3. I feel option 1 is the best for our young students. I agree that a 2:00 dismissal poses challenges for working parents to say the least.This would also extend the hours for a child who attends the Scope Program.
I vote for option 1 or 2. Why should K-2 start before high schoolers? I am totally opposed to option 3.
I think beginning the early elementary schools at 7:30 is the wrong approach. There is no doubt kids will be consistently late as it is difficult to get the little ones out that early, especially the 5 year olds going to school full day for the first time. They would be having breakfast in school instead of lunch! A 2:00 ending time also poses challenges for working parents. I think option 1 is more suited for young students especially with the new block scheduling that is being implemented.
If casting my vote…I would choose Option 3 ~ 1st, Option 1 ~ 2nd, Option 2 ~ last. In my opinion, Jackson really needs to stay at the later start time. I’ve been a Jackson parent for the past 5 years & this school year really has been a world of difference (in a very great way) with our neighboring Chaminade. Pros & Cons to all options. If anyone needs help with their kids afterschool, I’m here to lend a helping hand.
Love option 3!
My vote is for option 1 or 2. I’m totally against option 3! My kindergartner will be one of those kids on the longest routes and I can’t see putting her on the bus on or before 7.
Thank you for considering a later start time for middle and high school students, and acknowledging that the research is in favor of these students starting school later. While this poses difficulties for parents in terms of child care options and districts in terms of after-school activities, I would encourage parents to enter “school start times and sleep” into a Google search to find articles which might explain why the Board would pose this as an option. Option 3 seems to provide the later start time for older students, same dismissal for Hampton & Meadow with plenty of time to get to the Middle School and Jackson for pickup of siblings, possibly at the same time. Younger students might even have some time for either rest/play/homework help prior to picking up older siblings. Waiting at the bus stop in the dark during winter hours is an issue, however a parent is usually with the younger students. I think it is great that this option is even being discussed. Thank you!
Therefore, I think options 1 or 2 are the best.
I have to agree with the others that 730 is too early. I would be open to any other possibility that includes a later start time.I feel 730 would be too early for my 5 year old son next year. The other two options are much more reasonable!
I agree with Georgette’s comment. Is there an issue with keeping the current start times? Also, for those that pick up their kids and have kids in two schools, in option 1, I think there might be an issue picking up from Meadow (3:19pm) and getting to Jackson (3:27pm) in time.
Although I understand the rationale of starting the younger students earlier, my concern is how early that start time of 7:30 is. For a good part of the year, those young children who take the bus will have to be going to the bus stop before it is light out. In addition, it seems Option 3 would increase the time working parents need to get afternoon child care. Option 1 appears to be the least “radical” change. The students who are coming in to Meadow from Willis will be used to a similar time schedule and it maintains Jackson’s dismissal time to avoid the dismissal at Chaminade.
As a working parent I prefer the earlier start time, even though it will make for a very hectic morning. I know that even though there would be an earlier dismissal time I have an after school program my child could attend . Unfortunately we don’t have a early morning program at this time.
Speaking as a parent who will have a child in Kindergarten at Meadow Drive and a 3rd grader at Jackson, I would like to cast my unofficial vote for Option 1.
If the board and yourself go with options 2 or 3t here should be a morning Scope program or something similar to it. Actually if there is room for it and feasible to do, I know a number of parents would appreciate a morning program of sort.
Brian
Dr. Nagler, is there any other option that would allow Meadow and Hampton to start at the same time, just not at 7:30 and have Jackson’s end time not coincide with Chaminade?I just can’t see putting my daughter who will just have turned 5 on a bus at 7:10 in the morning to go to school, especially since it will be her first time staying full day. Would it be possible to start Meadow and Hampton at 8:00? And have a later start and end time for Jackson?
Why can’t we leave the times the way it is??? I am totally opposed to option 3.